Nov 28 05:07 <srag> I think we can start now.

Nov 28 05:07 <srag> Ok guys, the team here is busy on the MAPI based connector.

Nov 28 05:07 <srag> I still don't have a closure on the licensing stuff.

Nov 28 05:08 <srag> I think after that I would drop the code from the branch to the main trunk for 2.22

Nov 28 05:08 <srag> Apart from that, Im hoping that psankar would take up UAM/Account-revamp and then Split (if time permits)

Nov 28 05:08 *EvaSDK (eva@APuteaux-755-1-5-219.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #evolution-meet

Nov 28 05:08 <srag> this is the tentative plan I have as of now

Nov 28 05:08 <EvaSDK> hi there

Nov 28 05:09 <srag> Unfortunately there is not much effort spent on bugs atm from us and Im sure that in another month this would change

Nov 28 05:09 <psankar> some half-baked cookie - http://www.go-evolution.org/Unified_Account_Management

Nov 28 05:09 *andre-afk has quit (Remote closed the connection)

Nov 28 05:09 <srag> mcrha, and others in the community are doing great in terms of bugfixing and filling the gap

Nov 28 05:09 <srag> which is pretty good for the project

Nov 28 05:09 <srag> thanks to everyone

Nov 28 05:10 <srag> We can go around the channel now

Nov 28 05:10 <srag> abharath, anything to share with us?

Nov 28 05:10 <abharath> srag: working on the setup. trying out a work around. hopefully it'll click. meanwhile looking into integrating my changes into the updated source.

Nov 28 05:10 <srag> abharath, I think you should get the base code for smartcard asap

Nov 28 05:11 <abharath> bugging akhil all day long to get it done soon

Nov 28 05:11 <srag> abharath, ok

Nov 28 05:11 <abharath> srag: ok will do it

Nov 28 05:11 <srag> abharath, how is your pst work coming up

Nov 28 05:11 *andre (~andre@dslb-088-070-088-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #evolution-meet

Nov 28 05:11 *monkey|bot gives channel operator status to andre

Nov 28 05:11 <abharath> srag: not tht great. but i'm pacing up with it

Nov 28 05:11 <srag> abharath, cool

Nov 28 05:12 <srag> abharath, lets get the smartcard stuff sooner

Nov 28 05:12 <srag> ashish, anything to share with us?

Nov 28 05:12 <ashish> srag, I was working in custom header support. It's complete, it will tested by QA, today or tommrow after verify from QA, if there will be any issue, i'll work on that..otherwise i'll start with new task.

Nov 28 05:13 <srag> ashish, get that reviewed by psankar first

Nov 28 05:13 <ashish> srag, ok...

Nov 28 05:13 <psankar> srag, sure thing will do that

Nov 28 05:13 <srag> cool

Nov 28 05:13 <srag> EvaSDK, anything to share with us?

Nov 28 05:13 <EvaSDK> not much, still working on gui stuff (view settings) and getting some more ideas to review the account assistant/configuration

Nov 28 05:14 <EvaSDK> and that's all currently :)

Nov 28 05:14 *You are now known as mbarnes

Nov 28 05:14 <srag> EvaSDK, cool

Nov 28 05:14 <srag> EvaSDK, iirc I posted on e-h some patch on my work on account assistant years back

Nov 28 05:14 <srag> EvaSDK, you can have a look at it

Nov 28 05:14 <EvaSDK> I'll search for that :)

Nov 28 05:15 <EvaSDK> on I looked again at a possible migration of gtk-assistant

Nov 28 05:15 <srag> EvaSDK, I posted it in the current week

Nov 28 05:15 <EvaSDK> but the EConfig stuff seems a bit complicated :)

Nov 28 05:15 <srag> k

Nov 28 05:15 <srag> EvaSDK, yeah :)

Nov 28 05:15 <srag> jony, anything to share with us?

Nov 28 05:15 <EvaSDK> oh yes I remember now

Nov 28 05:15 <jony> srag: mostly on mapi. nothing much other than that .

Nov 28 05:16 <srag> jony, cool.

Nov 28 05:16 <srag> lakhil, anything to share with us?

Nov 28 05:16 <srag> mbarnes, anything to share with us?

Nov 28 05:16 <lakhil> srag,

Nov 28 05:16 <lakhil> currently busy in server set ups ( exchange 2007 and Smart card on exchange 2003 ) ..nothing much apart from that  

Nov 28 05:17 <mbarnes> I merged a bunch of refactoring work from my "Bonobo-less" composer branch yesterday

Nov 28 05:17 <mbarnes> I'm still plugging away at it as time permits

Nov 28 05:17 <srag> lakhil, lets get the setup asap

Nov 28 05:17 <srag> mbarnes, cool

Nov 28 05:17 <srag> mbarnes, when can we expect new look composer on trunk?

Nov 28 05:18 <mbarnes> still shooting for getting it done by GNOME 2.22

Nov 28 05:18 <srag> cool.

Nov 28 05:19 <srag> mcrha, hey

Nov 28 05:19 <srag> anything for us?

Nov 28 05:21 <srag> psankar, anything to share with us?

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Nov 28 05:22 <srag> psankar_, anything to share with us?

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Nov 28 05:22 <psankar_> sorry got disconnected

Nov 28 05:22 <psankar_> srag, Running after a kernel/gdb bug as a result of which no good traces are generated for Evo. crashes. Been playing around with various versions of gdb.  Sadly, Nothing code-wise.

Nov 28 05:22 *monkey|bot gives channel operator status to andre

Nov 28 05:22 <psankar_> so it is not just me who got diconnected

Nov 28 05:22 <psankar_> ?

Nov 28 05:22 <srag> psankar_, yep

Nov 28 05:23 <schooms> psankar_: yep

Nov 28 05:23 <srag> psankar_, I want a wbs of UAM and lets plan when we can get that in to svn

Nov 28 05:23 <psankar_> srag, before a WBS I need to come up with the full reqs. I will try to make it for 2.22

Nov 28 05:24 <psankar_> i mean i'll try to complete the featyre for 2.22

Nov 28 05:24 <srag> psankar_, cool

Nov 28 05:24 <srag> schooms, anything to share with us?

Nov 28 05:24 <schooms> srag: yep.. been working on stream handling for most of today.. pretty close to done :) that apart, MAPI cal/tasks/memos has been going great.. have a few issues though.. otherwise.. itz been good ;)

Nov 28 05:25 <srag> schooms, good

Nov 28 05:25 <mcrha> schooms, streams handling?

Nov 28 05:25 <srag> schooms, get them reviewed in short chunks

Nov 28 05:25 <srag> mcrha, MAPI Streams :)

Nov 28 05:25 <mcrha> oh, ok

Nov 28 05:25 <schooms> mcrha: MAPI streams :)

Nov 28 05:25 <schooms> ah..

Nov 28 05:26 <srag> schooms, ok

Nov 28 05:26 <srag> mcrha, anything to share with us?

Nov 28 05:26 <mcrha> sureeeeeee

Nov 28 05:26 <mcrha> I broke calendar with my patch at bug 325730, have there fix waiting for review, but I definitely broke it. Very pity. Apart of that, I want to discuss that plugin-tab-configuration thing here, if we can.

Nov 28 05:26 <srag> mcrha, we can have the discussion at the end

Nov 28 05:26 <mcrha> okkk

Nov 28 05:27 *jony waiting for it

Nov 28 05:27 <srag> mcrha, I will review it asap

Nov 28 05:27 <mcrha> ok

Nov 28 05:27 <srag> srinidhi, anything to share with us?

Nov 28 05:27 <srinidhi> srag: nothing much this time too.. :(

Nov 28 05:27 <srinidhi> srag: got that build working on build service

Nov 28 05:28 <srag> k

Nov 28 05:28 <srag> I think we have come to end of the status and we can have the discussion on the plugins tab/dialog if there are nothing more to discuss

Nov 28 05:29 <mcrha> srag forgot andre and monkey :)

Nov 28 05:29 <andre> i just lurk. :)

Nov 28 05:29 <srag> andre, I go by alphabetical order and andre was afk when I began :)

Nov 28 05:29 <srag> (hi andre)

Nov 28 05:30 <mbarnes> srag: just real quick, someone asked me yesterday if we're still on track for getting Ross' D-Bus E-D-S branch merged for 2.22?

Nov 28 05:30 <andre> hehe :) somehow my cpu was on 100% and i had to kill X, so i didn't saw. but i have nothing to add anyway :)

Nov 28 05:30 <srag> :)

Nov 28 05:30 <srag> mbarnes, when I spoke to ross he told me that he is too busy to fix the bugs on the dbus port for addressbook

Nov 28 05:31 <psankar_> mbarnes, since ross and chen are not there, i might suggest to use evo-hackers for that

Nov 28 05:31 <srag> and the calendar part is still left

Nov 28 05:31 <andre> psankar_, : various versions of gdb? can you elaborate the problem?

Nov 28 05:31 <mbarnes> fair enough, thanks

Nov 28 05:31 <srag> I was hoping that chen to take up, but still that needs to be scheduled

Nov 28 05:31 <srag> mbarnes, if you have some suggestions, I would be happy to hear that

Nov 28 05:32 <srag> would be nice if someone wants to take something big :)

Nov 28 05:32 <psankar_> andre, that is most probably a suse specific thing. We were not getting good traces for SLED SP1 so I tried compiling a different version of gdb for SP1. thats it

Nov 28 05:33 <andre> psankar_,  isn't that again novell bug 258433?

Nov 28 05:34 <psankar_> andre, nope. it is a different problem with the same symptom. in a much older kernel

Nov 28 05:34 <srag> mcrha, jony psankar_ we can have the discussion on the plugins

Nov 28 05:34 <andre> psankar_, ahhh, okay

Nov 28 05:34 <psankar_> :)

Nov 28 05:34 <jony> srag: yep .

Nov 28 05:34 <psankar_> I looked around the UI of banshee plugin-manager which has a

Nov 28 05:34 <mcrha> sure, who will start?

Nov 28 05:34 <psankar_> tab-configure style

Nov 28 05:35 <psankar_> mcrha, I will :)

Nov 28 05:35 <mcrha> ok psankar_

Nov 28 05:35 <srag> it has already started

Nov 28 05:35 <psankar_> and in my personal opinion i guess a that gets disabled/enabled as you navigate thru' the list is not so appealing and

Nov 28 05:36 *andre has quit (Vuntz for president!)

Nov 28 05:36 <psankar_> may make some problems with screen-shots of plugin-manager as well.... people might ask: What happened to that "configure tab" I dotn see it in my machine... and

Nov 28 05:36 <psankar_> iirc, srag told that any auto-magic- widget enabling/disabling is a HIG violation and

Nov 28 05:36 <srag> psankar_, oh

Nov 28 05:37 <srag> psankar_, you are right

Nov 28 05:37 <EvaSDK> it is :)

Nov 28 05:37 <psankar_> rhythmbox etc. all the plugin managers use Configure button

Nov 28 05:37 *EvaSDK just reread this part this weekend :)

Nov 28 05:37 <psankar_> so

Nov 28 05:37 <psankar_> to align with rest of the gnome apps. I might say: We'll continue to have as it is for the time being

Nov 28 05:37 <psankar_> however,

Nov 28 05:38 <psankar_> any suggestion to drastically change the plugin manager ui - giving a brand enw artistic look is also welcomed

Nov 28 05:38 <psankar_> that's it  from me ? open to fights / discussions / suggestions

Nov 28 05:38 <jony> we'll keep that tab with a message "no config options avail for this plugin"  (on the tab)

Nov 28 05:38 <srag> psankar_, I remember some thread on d-d-l on the similar thoughts

Nov 28 05:38 <EvaSDK> that would require constently checking if there is a configure option or not

Nov 28 05:38 <jony> and popup r annoying and difficult to manage (since the config-popup is not modal)

Nov 28 05:38 <EvaSDK> a pain for the user

Nov 28 05:38 <psankar_> jony, so u will require a extra navigation to see if a plugin is configurable or not

Nov 28 05:39 <mcrha> I agree with jony, in booth ttttthings

Nov 28 05:39 <mbarnes> psankar_: has there been any thought given to merging the plugin manager UI into preferences, as a new category (on the left)?

Nov 28 05:39 <srag> Too many popups are bad

Nov 28 05:39 <psankar_> mbarnes, nope. but do you want it that way ? we are already plannign to remove

Nov 28 05:40 <psankar_> mbarnes,  other componente preferences from the general preference.... i.e.,

Nov 28 05:40 <EvaSDK> hum what about integrating the configure option just below the plugin description

Nov 28 05:40 <psankar_> mbarnes, if you click edit->preferences from Mail component u will get only mail preferences and the same way

Nov 28 05:40 <srag> psankar_, mbarnes definitely we want to remove the non-core cfs of plugins from preferences UI

Nov 28 05:40 <EvaSDK> and make the whole right part into a ScrolledWindow ?

Nov 28 05:40 <jony> psankar_: hmmm .. v cud simply disable the tab . but that is ambiguous .. since users will find that for some plugins itz there .. so a message is fine i guess ..  imho

Nov 28 05:41 <psankar_> EvaSDK, the screen estate is too small to that and may not be enough for every plugin

Nov 28 05:41 <srag> psankar_, I think a tab is fine

Nov 28 05:41 <EvaSDK> imho plugins shouldn't have that much configure option that it makes it unsuitable for this case

Nov 28 05:41 <srag> Even if it is a HIG break to auto disable/hide tab, we can go ahead with that

Nov 28 05:41 <srag> at the least we can disable the tabs

Nov 28 05:42 <srag> psankar_, I see another problem with tabs

Nov 28 05:42 <srag> psankar_, Do we load the plugin though it is disabled?

Nov 28 05:42 <psankar_> srag, a disabled tab is not so visible that it is disabled

Nov 28 05:42 <psankar_> srag, nope

Nov 28 05:42 <psankar_> we do nto laod

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Nov 28 05:42 <srag> psankar_, so, unless the plugin is enabled you wont know if that is configurable or not

Nov 28 05:42 <psankar_> i mean: when u disable the plugin explicitly that ervo-instance will have the loaded plugin

Nov 28 05:43 <srag> Im sure that we can work this around

Nov 28 05:43 <srag> Definitely the current approach has too many popups

Nov 28 05:43 <psankar_> srag, Nope. I dont get it. how does this affect tabs/ popup ?

Nov 28 05:44 <srag> psankar_, It would be bad, to know if it is configurable only by enabling the plugin

Nov 28 05:44 <srag> may not be bad, to hear, but not so nice when you use it

Nov 28 05:45 <psankar_> srag, i guess we can fix that problem. But my question is regarding if we shoudl go for tabs  or continue with popups

Nov 28 05:45 <psankar_> we just have two levels of popups and all apps.have it this way... firefox, rhythmbox etc.

Nov 28 05:45 <srag> psankar_, If HIG is the only thing, I think we can take it and go with it

Nov 28 05:45 <srag> psankar_, no

Nov 28 05:46 <srag> the configure dialog will be the third evolution dialog

Nov 28 05:46 <srag> 1- evolution 2- plugin 3- configuration

Nov 28 05:46 <psankar_> srag, yup...  same is the case with firefox and thythmbox

Nov 28 05:46 <srag> Im sure that some plugin may need a dialog  for something or error or foo

Nov 28 05:46 <srag> which case, it will be 4 and I think it will be really bad

Nov 28 05:46 <jony> and i can invoke more than on config popup ( for different plugins)

Nov 28 05:47 <jony> s/on/one

Nov 28 05:47 <psankar_> srag, if we go for a tab, all options should be click-and-apply and cannot have a ok/cancel also

Nov 28 05:47 <mcrha> for same too

Nov 28 05:47 <EvaSDK> that's because it's not modal and iirc it is considered ok

Nov 28 05:47 <psankar_> you still want it that way ?

Nov 28 05:47 <srag> psankar_, I think that is the way GNOME is

Nov 28 05:48 <srag> even our prefs dialog is that way

Nov 28 05:48 <EvaSDK> instant-apply is the way to go

Nov 28 05:48 <srag> yeah

Nov 28 05:48 <EvaSDK> it's not like it's complicated to uncheck a box :)

Nov 28 05:48 <EvaSDK> (it's different than say ldap config which is broken in that respect)

Nov 28 05:49 <psankar_> i personally have  a distaste for such instant-apply... while changing themes/wallpapers (anyway)

Nov 28 05:50 <psankar_> anyway, I feel that having a tab will not help and will not be as appealing as one might expect

Nov 28 05:50 <EvaSDK> I think the rationale is unless the operation is a heavy change, it should be install-apply

Nov 28 05:50 <EvaSDK> (so wallpapers are in the middle :))

Nov 28 05:50 <jony> :)

Nov 28 05:50 <psankar_> EvaSDK, if it is a popup , it is upto the plugin-developer

Nov 28 05:51 <EvaSDK> I expect plugins to be light cost operations in most (99%) cases :)

Nov 28 05:51 <mcrha> we can change Edit->Plugin to OK/Cancel instead of Close, or not?

Nov 28 05:51 <srag> mcrha, no no please

Nov 28 05:51 <psankar_> srag, I guess we will not come for a consensus. My preference is to continue with popups. if majority of you feel tabs are the way to go. Tehn we can make it the final way

Nov 28 05:51 *ashish (~ashish@125.16.129.16) has joined #evolution-meet

Nov 28 05:51 <mcrha> srag, ok, I would prefer, but ok

Nov 28 05:52 <srag> Voting?

Nov 28 05:52 <jony> mcrha:  it'll be confusing .. especially switching between plugin conifgure and at the end say ok/cancel

Nov 28 05:52 <psankar_> mcrha, isnt that more confusing ? u will have to save the data of all plugin(s)-modificatinos

Nov 28 05:52 <EvaSDK> mcrha: well the plugin dialog is instant apply anyway (in that it stores settings and tries to load plugins right away)

Nov 28 05:52 <mcrha> ok, ok, just a thought

Nov 28 05:52 <psankar_> srag, yeah probably

Nov 28 05:52 <mcrha> srag, sure

Nov 28 05:53 <srag> guys I think we will endup discussing all the time

Nov 28 05:53 <EvaSDK> :)

Nov 28 05:53 <srag> there are 11 guys excluding the bot

Nov 28 05:53 <srinidhi> why can't we have a widget like what pidgin plugin conf has??

Nov 28 05:53 *srinidhi hides

Nov 28 05:54 *EvaSDK hates pidgin in most of its gui aspects :)

Nov 28 05:54 <psankar_> he wisdom of crowds[4] only works in situations where there

Nov 28 05:54 <psankar_> are clear right and wrong answers. If you try to apply it to a design

Nov 28 05:54 <psankar_> problem, where there are many entirely different right answers, then you

Nov 28 05:54 <psankar_> end up with a wrong answer. Always[5].

Nov 28 05:54 <srag> I just want to hear what every one says (+tab or  +popup  and silence means 'anything is fine'

Nov 28 05:54 <schooms> can we have a vote please... so much easier :)

Nov 28 05:54 <psankar_> *The

Nov 28 05:54 <psankar_> +tab

Nov 28 05:54 <mcrha> srag, 12+1op

Nov 28 05:54 <psankar_> or + popups ?

Nov 28 05:54 <EvaSDK> +popups

Nov 28 05:54 <psankar_> oh okay... i got it

Nov 28 05:54 <psankar_> +popups

Nov 28 05:54 *schooms : +tab

Nov 28 05:55 <jony> + tabs

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Nov 28 05:55 <psankar_> EvaSDK, I guess we will lose out ;)

Nov 28 05:55 <srag> no text except the voting for another 1 minute

Nov 28 05:55 <abharath> abharath: +tabs

Nov 28 05:55 <mcrha> +tabs

Nov 28 05:55 <mbarnes> I'd like to see a screenshot of what we mean by "tabs"

Nov 28 05:55 <EvaSDK> mbarnes: see banshee

Nov 28 05:56 <srag> + tabs

Nov 28 05:56 <psankar_> mbarnes, http://banshee-project.org/Image:0_11_0_plugins.png

Nov 28 05:57 <psankar_> I am reminded of DanW's words:

Nov 28 05:57 <psankar_> The wisdom of crowds only works in situations where there

Nov 28 05:57 <psankar_> are clear right and wrong answers. If you try to apply it to a design

Nov 28 05:57 <psankar_> problem, where there are many entirely different right answers, then you

Nov 28 05:57 <psankar_> end up with a wrong answer. Always.

Nov 28 05:57 <mbarnes> +tabs

Nov 28 05:57 <srag> Cool. I see only 2 +popups and +6 tabs

Nov 28 05:58 <srag> even if the rest vote, it may not change

Nov 28 05:58 <psankar_> :'(

Nov 28 05:58 <psankar_> srag, really +6 tabs ?

Nov 28 05:59 <EvaSDK> make it a hidden gconf key :D

Nov 28 05:59 <srag> psankar_, design is fine, but the preference of what people like is always different and it is best to go with the majority

Nov 28 05:59 <EvaSDK> note that tabs means instant-apply always afaics

Nov 28 05:59 <srag> psankar_, Im sure that even if we take a bad decision today, it isn't so difficult to rever that

Nov 28 05:59 *abharath checks if anyone voted more than once

Nov 28 06:00 <psankar_> EvaSDK, yup

Nov 28 06:00 <psankar_> okay... we'll take it as the final verdict

Nov 28 06:00 <srag> psankar_, yep

Nov 28 06:00 <psankar_> I mean Tabs as the final verdict

Nov 28 06:00 *abharath infact checks if 2 votes were both by psankar_ ;)

Nov 28 06:00 <psankar_> abharath, nope. EvaSDK is in my side

Nov 28 06:00 <srag> I think we should end the meeting now

Nov 28 06:00 <EvaSDK> 1 hour is enough ;)

Nov 28 06:00 <srag> :)

Nov 28 06:00 *psankar_ offers EvaSDK mountain-dew

Nov 28 06:01 <mcrha> what will be next? tracker bug for that?

Nov 28 06:01 <EvaSDK> psankar_: thanks :)

Nov 28 06:01 <srag> mcrha, that we can take offline and not necessarily in the meeting

Nov 28 06:01 <mcrha> who will do that? I've at least two bugs waiting for this, so if you approve...

Nov 28 06:01 <EvaSDK> let's switch to #evo

Nov 28 06:01 <mcrha> ok

Nov 28 06:01 <srag> mcrha, psankar_ our plugin maintainer would take itt

Nov 28 06:02 <srag> time to go guys

Nov 28 06:02 <EvaSDK> see you next week all

Nov 28 06:02 <srag> we 'll end the meeting.

Nov 28 06:02 <mcrha> see you

Nov 28 06:02 <srag> bye everyone